Thoughts on a new PW/ruleset

Lets just assume for a bit that you were looking at putting together a new ruleset for a PW that is still based in Faerun but has none of the "official" trappings of D&D. By that I mean that none of the pre-existing base classes, spells, prcs, etc existed. You start with a full set of new classes and content and build it for a specific ruleset geared towards a CRPG (NWN2 in particular of course).

What would you like to see in it?

Core foundations/rules (open to changing them except for rule number one):
0) Fun is the focus, first and foremost.
1) Level 20 cap. No chance of this changing due to the broken epic BAB progression.
2) No PrCs. Just base classes with enough flavor and choices to suit a wide range of RP options for each one.
3) Immunities are exceedingly rare. The "rogue" class equivalent for example would start with epic precision for their "critical strikes."
4) No non-magical drops from creatures that are not cash, crafting materials, or quest objects.
5) Flexible crafting system that allows you to design your "perfect" item given enough time, cash, and crafting drops. Boss drops that can be stronger but are random in properties.
6) An eye towards pvp but the focus on RP. No multi-shot death attack expose possibilities, no hips (rogues will have abilities which provide invis, etc, and get epic precision so requiring stealth is less of a requirement and more of a tactical bonus), no bigby's, no divine power, no domains, etc.
7) The limitations and exploits available in the game will be minimized and avoided entirely if possible (hips, expose, death attack, domain spells, damage bonuses on the character vs items).
Buffs (for any class) are of two types: long term and tactical. Long term buffs will always last 24 hours and will provide minor benefits. Tactical buffs are stronger but rarely last more than a minute or two. Class level does not play a large part in duration, just in effectiveness.
9) Items can have specific properties on only a few key slots to prevent stacking issues (mainly affecting saves/skills)

Please keep in mind that even if the ruleset starts to evolve nicely it may never become an actual PW due to all the other pieces that are required to run a server (server hardware, area builders, scripters for area/conversations/DM events, DMs, someone to help with the ruleset building/balancing (and more people to design/decide what it is), NWN2X familiarity, server management familiarity, etc).

All of this being said, if a PW op (or someone with experience creating/hosting a server) would like to host a test server for the evolving ruleset I'd love to get in touch with you via PM and discuss getting this going if there is enough interest.

Sounds rather interesting, and rather ambitious. I'll be interested to see how this progresses.

*shrugs* About what I expected. No interest.

I would be really interested, but I voted "Maybe -- depends on the specifics" because the kind of RP would make a difference in whether I wanted to actively play such a PW. I've come to see that different people have very different visions of RP worlds.

Having said that, all the things you outlined are quite interesting!

Sounds interesting to me.

Though no PrCs? Couldn't there be at least some 5 lvls PrCs, to help create some diversity between classes?

"Would you be interested?" Yes, definitely.

Your rule system looks far more streamlined than the current one. A player would no longer need years of experience and exploit knowledge to be any good at this game.

In the ruleset yeah I'm interested however I play only SP...

0 ) of course, fun.
1 ) Id still prefer lvl 30 max, some things are broken I agree, but lvls and class do contribute to roleplay and powergaming both. Id prefer a lvl 30 max server with ways to protect rpers from powegamers. But Id still try out a server with 20 lvls max anyways tho, honestly.
2 ) Same as no 1. Id prefer a wider variety and ways to protect rpers from optimizers. But whatever the server rules and settings are, nothing beats having super good story telling DM's.
3 ) Immunities always sucked. A+. Saves n stuff are there for that.
4 ) More trash loot is good if it keeps to the RP theme. But its not that important, wouldnt really make a difference in joining or leaving a server.
5 ) That s just gonna end in a lot of optimizing. I disagree but wouldnt influence me in joining or leaving a server. id rather see stats allowed in gear that makes sense. Move silently on boots, hide on cloaks, mostly anything on rings, etc etc.
6 ) Yes, an eye on Pvp but focus on RP. The only eye on pvp needed is that nothing gets too powerful, aka 1 shotting folks or things that has no counters to it.
7 ) There aren't that many exploits. Hips yes, bigby lvl 6 yes, some other but *shrug*
8 ) I wouldnt mind, but compare ADnD 3.5 to 4.0. People dont like 4.0 for how equalizing it was. Im sure a lot of folks wouldnt like that.
9 ) Aye.

Why are you proposing a server with almost no PRC's when you made like 20-30 new class n prestige classes? Is this a trick question?

All that s needed are good story dms, ways to limit the OP toons and simple rules to avoid excess dm work. Anyways, Id try such a PW, just for kicks. Would I stay there? That would depend on the players there, nothing else, really.

Kalundelyr wrote:Why are you proposing a server with almost no PRC's when you made like 20-30 new class n prestige classes? Is this a trick question?

NWN2 has been built upon the idea that more variety in character builds is better. It has pretty much ignored the idea that any of these builds should actually be fun to play. To me, this has always meant that (other than caster classes) a character is only fun in the building process and in the RP.

A ruleset that draws from Pathfinder could turn this around by including a lot more active abilities instead of a bunch of passive "+X to Y" kind of abilities. In such a system, each character can be played really differently, so you don't need the same huge number of build options--because they're not your only source of fun anymore.

Just a quick post to show my interest in this.
Have sent a PM to Kaedrin to discuss it further.

I got the PMs but I haven't had a chance to respond yet. Work has been rather crazy with 10-12+ hour days.

I play a variety of games at a variety of difficulty levels and this rule set is very undefined. I voted yes because I guess I'm an optimist at the moment. But, I've seen this sort of thing before in NWN2 servers and I found it dull. It wasn't the rule set per se that was dull. It was the grinding and lack of ... I don't know, razzle dazzle, content? These servers tend to have a slowness in pace about them and they seem to forget all about fun and fantasy, instead opting to sit around a camp fire bullshiting, and seem to be builder projects more than actually player environments. Additionally, what about the other half of the equation, the enemies? Usually, these rule sets in NWN2 have no restrictions on the enemies only the PCs. I find that lopsided.

Now, the sloppy kitchen sink approach tends to have something for everybody even though they all hate each other's preferences.

Incidentally, Iron Heroes (and Bestiary), might be useful here.

I really like the ruleset.
what i liked most is the one class thing: If make right with abilities and stuff there will be no need to PrC.

Just one question: It seens you pretend to remove spells such as B. Hand, how to you intend to remove such spells and make spellcaster still a good choice for PvE and PvP? I wonder if they will get too vunerable.

We spoke about this briefly on the NWN2db forum. I would be very interested in such a project. Even developing a basic ruleset and setting up a PW to test would draw some interest I think. Let me know if you need any help.

At this point I would need someone with previous PW experience to host a test server for me to really tinker with this any.

Hosting a basic module isn't horribly difficult. I have good bandwidth and could leave it up all the time. I am sort of running everything that way now, but I would probably want to get the latest NWNX4 running for ease of scripting, etc... Are you looking for any mod in particular? Obviously it would need to be clear of any of its own scripting, mods, etc. initially (except some basic tools).

Let me know. I'll PM you my email addresss.

I could help out if you are still interested in setting on up. I do have exp in NWN4. And among other things.  

Some thoughts on the rules.

Of course fun is foremost.

A level 20 limit. Well, most of the arguments that level 15 or 20 or whatever is the limit is that players get too powerful. WHAT? Powerful for what, for who? Too powerful for the DM to handle? Most likely...and too difficult to try to humble in THEIR god given domain. Maybe they're just too lazy to think up ways to challenge higher level characters. Maybe they want to reduce everyone to a level such that the low level characters that don't want to progress won't feel intimidated.

In any case, the idea is that characters have a goal to advance. All their RP and other activities on the server are goal directed. Regardless of what anyone says, if you are on the server only to chat....you're lying or you shouldn't be there. You're on the server to make friends, influence events, advance the power or standing of your character...whatever.

Also, these games are for FANTASY...remember? To play the part of a hero, or as close to one as someone can get. Make it harder to get to 30th...make it a hero's quest...make it damn near impossible. But still allow those people who want to be the fantastic hero...be the hero of fantasy. Geez. Make a quest at every other level that fits the character, and make it story driven. Drop the automatic 'kill so many monsters and I'm level 30' prescription.

I've played on servers that limit the level of characters and NOBODY liked it except the people who don't want to try to level. They're content to sit by the campfire and chat. Then when they are confronted with the idea of a character past level 20, they whine that it makes characters too powerful or it's not productive of anything...or any of a thousand other reasons to get off their butt and do something except chat. They are LUMPS. They don't participate in quests. They don't augment the society in the general welfare. They're LUMPS...Large Undefinable Masses of Purposeless Scrap (or another S word). Worthless except as centers for gossip.

As designers and modifiers of a set rule system...if you want to limit someone through rules, do it in such a way that it's because they didn't try or failed at an incredibly difficult task. But don't set an arbitrary limit to someone's advancement through a cap etched in stone through the rules. That's not fantasy.

I'd be quite interested in a PW similar to this. I am a bit leery about an arbitrary cap of level 20 on a PW, but if progression to that point is handled properly, I could get behind it. If there are no PrCs that would certainly help with the level 20 cap problem.

I love the described crafting system. I've always found crafting a great way to pass time during periods in which a server is basically empty. I also preferred it when crafting systems were the only way to get the best equipment. This provided a point to crafting.

It so happens that I have many years of PW experience, hosting from a server in my shop.
I might be able to help you with this. My only issue would be minor funding issues. PW updates/haks/traffic all add up to a lot of bandwidth, and it can become a bit expensive.
As long as you wouldn't need me to shoulder the full financial burden, I could probably get something set up for you with ftp access for most of the team, and possibly remote desktop for you.
I need to see what machines I have available to run it on before I promise anything, but let me know if you're interested.